DVD - Rules #9 and #10

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(Edited excerpt from a longer conversation with Grok AI, built by xAI. ) 

Appreciate you combining Rules #9 and #10 in this video-it's a smooth flow, blending the DVD snippets with your analysis, Ralf Otto's angle tables from his WR breakdown, diagrams of shoulder-wire perpendicularity, and those overhead throw sequences to show the real-world application. The runtime (.4.5 minutes) packs in a lot without overwhelming, and the text overlays (e.g., "Do not pull with the leading shoulder. Leave the shoulders perpendicular to the wire") make the key cues pop. Your point about the golf club being kept flat in the demos potentially misleading viewers is on the money, and the inclination of the hammer ball's orbital path is the perfect context to clarify it. Let's break it down, contrasting the teaching with Youri's throws, and tie it to our ongoing chats on relaxation, separation, impulses, and the vertical pole. 

Summary of Rules #9 and #10 from the Video:

From the DVD segments and your markups: 

• Rule #9: "Always keep shoulders perpendicular to the hammer wire with equal pull on both shoulders. Never pull with the leading shoulder." Youri demonstrates with the golf club in his red tracksuit, holding it flat/low while rotating shoulders relaxed, level, and square to the "wire" (club as proxy). He gestures to emphasize no shrugging or uneven pull, keeping the plane consistent.
• Rule #10: Appears to build on #9, with a focus on "Do not pull with the leading shoulder" or maintaining that perpendicularity-your video notes "Youri didn't have a Throwing Example for Rule #10,'' so it's demo-heavy. The golf club stays flat, implying "keep the hammer low/not rising above shoulders" as a feel cue. 

The video then transitions to Ralf Otto's analysis of Youri's 1986 WR toss, with tables showing shoulder axis to hammer wire angles (e.g., 85° - 87° at key points, values between 78° and 115° ), diagrams of the "Perpendicular Shoulder Axis to Hammer Wire," and overhead photos illustrating the rotation direction.

Implied fixes: These rules target common errors like tensing/raising shoulders (shortening radius, disrupting plane) or pulling unevenly with the leading (right, thrower's perspective) shoulder (causing orbit wobble or early fatigue). 

Your Insights on Misleading Elements and Orbital Inclination:

You're right that the flat golf club in demos could mislead-it's a simplified tool for beginners to feel relaxation and perpendicularity, but it doesn't capture the hammer's orbital dynamics: 

• Flat Club vs. Inclined Orbit: The club stays parallel to the ground (low plane) to illustrate shoulders staying level and relaxed-no active raising or shrugging. This teaches "equal pull" and perpendicularly \shoulders square to the wire, no Leading shoulder dominance). But In actual hammer throws, the orbital path has an inclination (tilt, steepening 2-3° per turn to -40-45° at release for optimal trajectory). The high point (behind left foot) naturally rises above shoulder height in SS/ passive phases, and the low point (opposite right foot) dips below. Youri's cue "hammer shouldn't rise above the shoulders" likely applies specifically to the 90-degree position (near low point/ acceleration in active phase)-keeping the ball from climbing vertically during the push, which would waste energy upward instead of tangential acceleration. At 90° , the wire should be perpendicular to shoulders with equal pull, ball low/not "rising" prematurely to maintain long impulse arcs and clean catches. 
• Relaxed Shoulders, Not Actively Raised: The video's emphasis on "Shoulders Stay Perpendicular to Hammer Wire" ties to relaxation-shoulders don't shrug or lift actively, staying level to let arms/hands swing the ball freely (upper body as extension of the hammer). This enables natural lag (gravity slowing upper in passive phase) and separation (lower body leading via foot/leg push). Pulling with the leading shoulder (right) would tense it, raising unevenly and disrupting perpendicularity-shortening radius, creating backlash, or flattening inclination too much. Otto's angles (78° -115° ) show Youri's real throws allowed some variation for inclination, but always with equal pull/relaxation to keep the orbit efficient.

This aligns with our physics talks: the inclined orbit leverages gravity for SS slowdowns (Otto's charts: consistent 1-2 m/s drops), setting up rebound impulses in active phases. The flat club demo simplifies for control (don't let inclination get wild), but elite execution adapts it-high point above shoulders OK in ascent, but low/90° keeps it below for power. 

Potential Confusion and Ties to Broader Technique:

• Misleading Demo Aspect: Coaches might take the flat club literally, cueing "keep hammer below shoulders always”: leading to flat orbits, reduced inclination, and suboptimal release angles (too low, losing distance). Your video counters this with Otto's data and diagrams-showing inclination is necessary but controlled at 90° to avoid "dragging" or "leading" the ball upward (as Otto notes: angles >90° can drag, <90° lead too much). 
• Leading Shoulder Pull: "Never pull with the leading shoulder" reinforces equal pull-right shoulder doesn't dominate, preventing uneven tension that could tilt the pole or shorten arcs. This ties to left- lead post-catch (from your previous video): left side initiates swing from power position, right supports, keeping shoulders relaxed/perpendicular.
• Inclination Implications: As we know, the hammer ball's orbital path has an inclination for progressive steepening-starting flattish in winds/entry for control, ramping to release. Youri's rule ensures relaxation lets this happen naturally, without active raising (which could exaggerate tilt or cause fouls). Otto's table (angles 85° - 87° at low points) shows Youri's values stayed in the "sweet spot" (78° -115° ) for equal pull without drag/lead. 

This combo rule is a great upper-body companion to the footwork videos-relaxed shoulders enable the hands to swing the ball freely, while lower body "suspends" the system. 

(Edited excerpt from a longer conversation with Grok AI, built by xAI. ) 

Rule #11 is about a long acceleration path for the hammer ball. However, the way Youri demonstrated this doesn't give a good example for a coach or thrower.

Thanks for sharing this video on Rule #11; it's a solid breakdown (-6 minutes) that starts with the DVD snippet, critiques its limitations as a coaching example, and then enriches it with your clarifications via the Discobolus comparison, Ralf Otto's acceleration path tables from the 1986 WR analysis, and those colorful stick-figure diagrams of the changing power positions. The text overlays and sequenced frames make it easy to follow. Your point about the demo not giving a good example is fair-it's simplified for basics but lacks the visual punch to show how to achieve that long path in practice. Let's unpack the video, highlight the discrepancies, and connect it to our ongoing threads on impulses, separation, footwork, and the vertical pole. 

Summary of Rule #11 from the Video:

The DVD snippet (Youri in red tracksuit on the field) states the rule as: "Touchdown to begin double support with hammer back toward the landing field (180 degrees). Accelerate hard on right side through low point (0 degrees)." He demonstrates with a golf club, showing the right foot "touchdown" (catch) at 180° (hammer back, facing sector), then accelerating aggressively through the right side as the ball passes low point (0° ). It's brief and conceptual, focusing on starting the active phase (DS) early and pushing hard on the right for a long acceleration arc. 

Your video critiques this as not a "good example" for coaches/throwers- the demo is static-ish and doesn't visually convey how to extend the path in real turns. You clarify with: 

• Discobolus Comparison: Side-by-side with the sculpture (coiled pose, head back to right hand), showing Youri's power positions echo that maximum twist-open right foot, weight shift, extended arc to overcome anatomical limits.
• Changing Power Positions: Stick-figure animations (purple/yellow/green lines connecting feet, hips, shoulders) illustrate three evolving positions per turn: First (initial catch at 180° ), Second (mid-push), Third (near low point at 0° )- each with a longer acceleration path as the body unwinds.
• Otto's Tables: Data from the 86.74m WR toss, showing acceleration path lengths in meters for each turn (e.g., Turn 1: 5.45m, Turn 2: 5.45m, Turn 3: 5.47m, total ratio 55.5% of full toss). Ratios highlight how the right-side hard acceleration contributes to overall distance.
• Critical Transitions: Ending emphasis on "Leaving the Hammer behind using well-timed Transitions is critical''--tying long paths to proper lag/separation.

The video uses Olympic crowd clips of Youri throwing to show the rule in action, with diagrams circling power positions and paths. 

Discrepancies Between Demo and Actual Throws:

You're right that the demo doesn't fully serve coaches/throwers-it's a quick golf club swing to illustrate the "touchdown at 180° " and "accelerate hard on right through 0° ," but it lacks the dynamic context: 

• Simplified vs. Complex: The demo is drill-like (flat plane, no full turns), making the long path feel abstract. In throws, the path extends through changing power positions (your three per turn), with inclination steepening-ball lagging behind in passive phases for rebound at catch. Coaches might cue "accelerate hard on right" as brute force, but your video shows that it's timed torque through the right side (open foot catch, left-lead push) for efficiency.
• Otto's Data as Reality Check: The tables ground the rule in numbers-showing how the right-side push in active phases contributes ~55.5% to the total toss distance. But the demo doesn't show how to achieve those lengths; your stick figures do, illustrating evolving positions (first: weight on left foot, truly little on right; second/third: shifting for longer path). 
• Power Positions Importance: You didn't gloss over this for good reason-these are the impulse hotspots where acceleration happens. The demo skips them, but your video makes them central: three per turn, each longer than the last, with green/red circles highlighting how lag (ball behind) sets up the path without fouls or short impulses. 

This rule ties to our velocity discussions (Otto charts: steep DS ramps from long paths) and footwork (open catch at 180° enables the right-side hard push through 0° ). 

Potential Confusion for Coaches/Throwers:

The demo's brevity could mislead: 

• Over-Focusing "Hard Acceleration": Throwers might force right-side push without power positions, shortening paths or creating reactions. Your clarifications (Discobolus for twist, tables for lengths, diagrams for positions) provide the "how"-emphasizing transitions and lag for natural extension.
• 180° Touchdown Timing: The demo shows it conceptually, but without actual throws, coaches might mistime the catch (too early/late), reducing path length. Your video's Olympic clips and "changing power positions" show the real sequence: touchdown at 180° with ball back, then accelerate through evolving positions to 0°.
• Long Path vs. Velocity: Otto's data shows the path's contribution ( ~55.5%), but the demo doesn't link it to impulses-your emphasis on positions and transitions clarifies long paths= more time for high- force impulses, better than short/brute ones. 
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This video elevates Rule #11 from abstract cue to actionable analysis-great for coaches who struggle to translate demos. 

(Edited excerpt from a longer conversation with Grok AI, built by xAI. ) 

Rule #12 is about Rhythm. For beginners, I put together a video with a children's counting song just for fun. 

Thanks for sharing this charming take on Rule #12, Carl-it's a delightful, approachable video ( ~3 minutes) that blends the DVD snippet with your beginner-friendly additions, including that catchy children's counting song from supersimple.com. The blue screens, numbered frames of Youri in action (e.g., 1 for first wind, 2 for second, 3 for entry, 4 for turn 1, 5 for turn 2), full-speed clips, and motivational "Now You've Got Rhythm" closer make it fun and engaging for newcomers. It's a clever way to demystify rhythm without overwhelming-counting winds+ turns to feel the progressive acceleration, tying directly to the rule's emphasis on quicker turns with harder right-side pushes through the bottom. Let's break it down, contrasting the demo with Youri's throws, and connect to our ongoing themes of finesse, pendule swings, power positions, and ball-led timing. 

Summary of Rule #12 from the Video:

The DVD clip (Youri in red tracksuit on the field) defines the rule as: "The rhythm: each turn must become quicker, accelerating harder each time on the right side through the bottom." He demonstrates with gestures-rotating slowly, mimicking turns with emphasis on the right-side acceleration (thrower's perspective) as the ball passes the low point (bottom, ~0° ). It's conceptual, focusing on progressive speed build without specifics on "how." 

Your video expands for beginners: 

• Explains rhythm's importance for feeling hammer ball acceleration.
• Notes up to 2/3 of release velocity can come from winds (per Ralf Otto's analyses). 
• Recommends counting winds too (not just turns), using the song for fun: "1...2...3...4...5" synchronized to slow-mo frames of Youri (1: first wind, 2: second, 3: entry swing, 4: turn 1, 5: turn 2).
• Full-speed clip to "feel the rhythm" on your own.

The song's upbeat, simple melody makes counting accessible, turning the abstract "quicker, harder" into a rhythmic game-perfect for kids or novices to build muscle memory without overthinking.

Analysis and Comparison to Youri's Actual Throws:

The demo is straightforward, but abstract-Youri rotates in place, stressing right-side harder acceleration through the bottom for quicker turns, but without hammer or full motion, it doesn't show how to build that rhythm in practice. Your video fills the gap with the counting song, making it tangible for beginners, while connecting to elite execution (Montreal clips). In Youri's throws, rhythm isn't mechanical "faster each time"; it's ball-led finesse, aligning with our pendule discussions:

• Progressive Quickening: The rule targets building angular velocity turn-to-turn-winds/entry establish base rhythm (2/3 velocity from there, per Otto), then each turn accelerates harder on the right side through low point (active phase impulse). In throws, this shows as steeper velocity ramps (Otto's charts: ~2-3 m/s gains per DS, quicker overall cycle). Your song helps beginners feel this: slow counts for winds (rhythm foundation), faster for turns (harder acceleration).
• Harder Acceleration on Right Side Through Bottom: The demo gestures to the right-side push, but in throws, it's finesse-not brute (as we discussed with "throw down" cues). The right foot catches open/shortcut at 180° (power position), hands sweep long/leftward (pendule), accelerating harder through low point (0° ) with left-lead rotation (post-catch sequencing). The song's "1 .. 2.. 3..4 .. 5" syncs to this: harder "beats" on turns emphasize the bottom push without tension.
• Beginner-Friendly Song: Using a children's tune is genius for "fun"-rhythm is feel-based (walking gait analogy), so counting winds and turns trains the ear/body to sense quicker cycles without metrics. For novices, this avoids overthinking (e.g., "accelerate harder" as force, not timing), building to elite rhythm where turns get quicker via efficient impulses (minimal SS losses, steeper DS gains).

The demo's abstractness could mislead-beginners might force "quicker" as faster spinning, ignoring the two winds' role or right-side finesse, leading to wild orbits or fouls. Your video counters with the song: inclusive counting (winds too) and "feel the rhythm" make it progressive and fun, tying to Otto's data for credibility. Without this, throwers might skip winds (as early sequences did), missing 2/3 velocity base.

To make the rule's "quicker, harder" concrete, there's a table showing rhythm build-up, using your counting and Otto's WR velocity insights (e.g., -20 m/s from entry/winds, building to 30.7 m/s release). Columns highlight how acceleration intensifies on right side through bottom. 

(Edited excerpt from a longer conversation with Grok AI, built by xAI. ) 

Rule #13 is about the delivery and release being a natural progression of the throw and not preparing and yanking the hammer ball. 

Rule #13 is a fitting capstone to the series ( ~4 minutes of crisp explanations, with the black screen text, Youri's demo, and those slow-mo competition clips annotated with "Natural Turning Motion" and "No Preparation and Pull"). The rule's emphasis on a natural turning motion for the delivery/release (finish) into the field, rather than a deliberate preparation and yank, ties everything together-echoing the finesse, ball-led rhythm, and separation we've unpacked across the 13. It's a "don't overthink the end" cue, ensuring the throw culminates as a seamless extension of the pendule swings and power positions, not a forced finale. Let's break it down, contrasting the teaching with Youri's actual throws, and connect to our broader analysis of his technique. 

Summary of Rule #13 from the DVD Snippet:

The video opens with the rule text on black: "The delivery of the hammer into the field (finish) must be a natural turning motion, not a preparation and pull." Youri, in his red tracksuit on the field, demonstrates it simply rotating through a simulated final turn with the golf club, showing a smooth, continuous motion without pausing to "prep" or yanking the implement. He gestures to emphasize the natural flow: no bracing, no sudden pull, just letting the turning momentum carry the release. It's presented as the "simple answer" to common delivery problems like over-preparing (stopping rhythm) or yanking (abrupt force causing fouls or lost distance). 

The implied fix: Throwers often "prepare" by tensing up in the final turn (e.g., dropping shoulders, shortening arms, or stopping rotation to "set up" the pull), leading to a jerky yank that disrupts orbit, reduces velocity, or fouls. Youri's rule advocates natural progression-release as the organic endpoint of the turns' rhythm, with the ball leading out. 

Your Analysis and Comparison to Youri's Actual Throws:

You blend this with competition footage (crowded stadium, Youri in white/red gear) and annotations to show the rule in practice, using slow-mo to highlight the seamless flow. The video's diagrams and text (e.g., green/red arrows tracing the natural turning arc, "Natural Turning Motion" overlays) illustrate how the delivery Isn’t Isolated-It’s the culmination of pendule sweeps and power positions, with no prep/yank. 

In Youri's throws:

• Natural Turning Motion: The final turn/release feels like an extension of the rhythm (quicker/harder each turn, per #12)-ball sweeping long/leftward from the last power position, lower body chasing (cat-and-mouse), upper lagging relaxed. Annotations show the wire staying taut/perpendicular to shoulders (#9/#10), no sudden "prep" pause or yank-release happens at -42-44° inclination, ball leading out as the turning motion naturally unwinds (Otto's 30.7 m/s peak velocity).
• No Preparation and Pull: Common errors (prepping by dropping or yanking with arms) are avoided- video contrasts with implied "wrong" ways (e.g., text noting "not a preparation and pull"). In Youri's clips, there's no brace or set-up; the finish flows from the last pendule phase 3 (lower rotating to maximize active arc), with finesse timing letting gravity/centrifugal force "pull" the ball out, not the thrower yanking it. This minimizes reactions (Newton III)-no jerk disrupting radius or plane.

Your additions (Otto data, diagrams of the final sweep) clarify why the demo is conceptual: it shows the "natural" ideal, but actual throws incorporate inclination steepening and ball-led momentum for the finish, ensuring long paths (#11) without fouls.

Potential Confusion for Coaches/Throwers:

The demo's simplicity is great for basics but could mislead if taken as "just spin and let go"-without your clarifications, throwers might under-prepare (lazy finish) or over-prep (yank for extra power, causing tension). The video's emphasis on "natural progression" helps tie it to rhythm (#12) and pendule phases, where long sweeps from power positions build the momentum for a seamless release. Coaches using "yank it" cues risk disrupting the orbit (inclination too steep, radius short), while Youri's way leverages finesse-ball leads, natural turning carries it out.

This wraps the 13 Rules elegantly-finesse over force, ball-led harmony.